Crimson and warp forest more than other biome #3143

New Issue

Preass · 2022-12-17T22:42:26+01:00

Preass commented

2022-12-17 22:42:26 +01:00

Why is it always crimson and warp forest when I go to the nether? What if I want ghast tears and blaze rods? Is this intended?

ancientmarinerdev commented

2022-12-18 00:25:24 +01:00

It's a fair point and I had the same concern myself. The balance is somewhat off.

ancientmarinerdev added the

mapgen

gameplay

annoying

labels 2022-12-18 00:25:59 +01:00

Michieal commented

2022-12-18 02:02:52 +01:00

Nearby overworld nether portals tend to go to one or two nether portals. To enter a different area, you have to go a good distance away, so that it chooses a new nether portal to take you to.

That said, some worlds you start in, the portals that you go to are in soul sands or, say, basalt delta... and you want to go to Crimson Forest.

(And, /findbiome isn't always available to you.)

I wouldn't say that the balance is off, as much as I would say that the portal code needs to be looked at, to sufficiently resolve this. But, the balance may indeed be off.

Nearby overworld nether portals tend to go to one or two nether portals. To enter a different area, you have to go a good distance away, so that it chooses a new nether portal to take you to. That said, some worlds you start in, the portals that you go to are in soul sands or, say, basalt delta... and you want to go to Crimson Forest. (And, /findbiome isn't always available to you.) I wouldn't say that the balance is off, as much as I would say that the portal code needs to be looked at, to sufficiently resolve this. But, the balance *may indeed be off.*

ancientmarinerdev commented

2022-12-18 02:14:39 +01:00

Trust me, it's off. I've only really seen those 2 biomes. Saw one soul sand, and 1 bassalt. I've dug 100s of blocks in every direction. Many different portals.

I've never seen a magma cube or ghast, and those were iconic in their presence in the nether. It almost feels safe, which doesn't feel right.

Basically Preass had exactly the same experience as me.

You've dismissed stuff before based on your rng before, but try not to, as when multiple experience something, it starts to strengthen the case.

Trust me, it's off. I've only really seen those 2 biomes. Saw one soul sand, and 1 bassalt. I've dug 100s of blocks in every direction. Many different portals. I've never seen a magma cube or ghast, and those were iconic in their presence in the nether. It almost feels safe, which doesn't feel right. Basically Preass had exactly the same experience as me. You've dismissed stuff before based on your rng before, but try not to, as when multiple experience something, it starts to strengthen the case.

Michieal commented

2022-12-18 03:12:30 +01:00

Trust me, it's off. I've only really seen those 2 biomes. Saw one soul sand, and 1 bassalt. I've dug 100s of blocks in every direction. Many different portals.

I've never seen a magma cube or ghast, and those were iconic in their presence in the nether. It almost feels safe, which doesn't feel right.

Basically Preass had exactly the same experience as me.

Not denying that. Just pointing out one of the main issues that we all have when encountering this.

You've dismissed stuff before based on your rng before, but try not to, as when multiple experience something, it starts to strengthen the case.

Well, I am not dismissing this. But I am pointing out that one of the main issues is probably that the portals just don't go to the different areas. I mean the Mapgen may very well be off, but if all 50 nearby portals only go to one small spot, that's going to cement the belief that that's all there is to the nether. What can do is, collect the seeds that this is encountered on, and then use /findbiome to look at the missing biomes. I rather think that we probably won't find end (nether) portals in those.

Oh, and on the lapis / diamond thing, I looked up the probabilities for their generation, and I think that the implementation is off a good bit. (tbf, there, the distribution statements are confusing as heck, so I could see it being misimplemented.)

Another note on this, there are less nether biomes than there are overworld biomes, but it sprawls out the same amount of space. So, you could have to go a couple thousand nodes to find the next biome over. I do think that they are there, it's just that it might be extremely difficult to access them.

There are 5 Nether Biomes, compared to 34+ overworld biomes. And those (both sets) are spread out over 62k x 62k x 128. And, with the overworld portals going to the nearest (x,z) portal instead of random portals across all of the Nether Dimension... odds are you're lucky to see 2 of the 5 biomes.

So, unless your travelling and exploring the entire world (yeah, that would so not be me), you will never see the others.

This is why I said that the portals should be looked at first - if nearby portals took the player to different areas, players would have a richer Nether experience. (FYI, you cannot delete the nether and get new portals even.)

> Trust me, it's off. I've only really seen those 2 biomes. Saw one soul sand, and 1 bassalt. I've dug 100s of blocks in every direction. Many different portals. > > I've never seen a magma cube or ghast, and those were iconic in their presence in the nether. It almost feels safe, which doesn't feel right. > > Basically Preass had exactly the same experience as me. Not denying that. Just pointing out one of the main issues that we all have when encountering this. > You've dismissed stuff before based on your rng before, but try not to, as when multiple experience something, it starts to strengthen the case. Well, I am not dismissing this. But I am pointing out that one of the main issues is probably that the portals just don't go to the different areas. I mean the Mapgen may very well be off, but if all 50 nearby portals only go to one small spot, that's going to cement the belief that that's all there is to the nether. What can do is, collect the seeds that this is encountered on, and then use /findbiome to look at the missing biomes. I rather think that we probably won't find end (nether) portals in those. Oh, and on the lapis / diamond thing, I looked up the probabilities for their generation, and I think that the implementation is off a good bit. (tbf, there, the distribution statements are confusing as heck, so I could see it being misimplemented.) Another note on this, there are less nether biomes than there are overworld biomes, but it sprawls out the same amount of space. So, you could have to go a couple *thousand* nodes to find the next biome over. I do think that they are there, it's just that it might be extremely difficult to access them. There are 5 Nether Biomes, compared to 34+ overworld biomes. And those (both sets) are spread out over 62k x 62k x 128. And, with the overworld portals going to the nearest (x,z) portal instead of random portals across all of the Nether Dimension... odds are *you're lucky to see 2 of the 5 biomes.* So, unless your travelling and exploring the entire world (yeah, that would so *not* be me), you will never see the others. This is why I said that the portals should be looked at first - if nearby portals took the player to different areas, players would have a richer Nether experience. (FYI, you cannot delete the nether and get new portals even.)

Ghost commented

2022-12-18 10:23:19 +01:00

It almost feels safe,

Trust me. It isn't so safe when a Piglin is running at you at Usain Bolt speed. (Seriously, they slide around faster than the player can run.)

But yeah, I have noticed too much forest, and not enough of the other biomes.

>It almost feels safe, Trust me. It isn't so safe when a Piglin is running at you at Usain Bolt speed. (Seriously, they slide around faster than the player can run.) But yeah, I have noticed too much forest, and not enough of the other biomes.

👍 1 😆 1

ancientmarinerdev commented

2022-12-18 14:44:08 +01:00

Trust me, it's off. I've only really seen those 2 biomes. Saw one soul sand, and 1 bassalt. I've dug 100s of blocks in every direction. Many different portals.

I've never seen a magma cube or ghast, and those were iconic in their presence in the nether. It almost feels safe, which doesn't feel right.

Basically Preass had exactly the same experience as me.

Not denying that. Just pointing out one of the main issues that we all have when encountering this.

You've dismissed stuff before based on your rng before, but try not to, as when multiple experience something, it starts to strengthen the case.

Well, I am not dismissing this. But I am pointing out that one of the main issues is probably that the portals just don't go to the different areas. I mean the Mapgen may very well be off, but if all 50 nearby portals only go to one small spot, that's going to cement the belief that that's all there is to the nether. What can do is, collect the seeds that this is encountered on, and then use /findbiome to look at the missing biomes. I rather think that we probably won't find end (nether) portals in those.

Oh, and on the lapis / diamond thing, I looked up the probabilities for their generation, and I think that the implementation is off a good bit. (tbf, there, the distribution statements are confusing as heck, so I could see it being misimplemented.)

Another note on this, there are less nether biomes than there are overworld biomes, but it sprawls out the same amount of space. So, you could have to go a couple thousand nodes to find the next biome over. I do think that they are there, it's just that it might be extremely difficult to access them.

There are 5 Nether Biomes, compared to 34+ overworld biomes. And those (both sets) are spread out over 62k x 62k x 128. And, with the overworld portals going to the nearest (x,z) portal instead of random portals across all of the Nether Dimension... odds are you're lucky to see 2 of the 5 biomes.

So, unless your travelling and exploring the entire world (yeah, that would so not be me), you will never see the others.

This is why I said that the portals should be looked at first - if nearby portals took the player to different areas, players would have a richer Nether experience. (FYI, you cannot delete the nether and get new portals even.)

I'm not saying we don't need to look at portals, but it's a different issue entirely. I have used portals to travel 8 blocks in the overworld for 1 in the nether, so it's pretty accurate in that regard.

In my opinion, this is a worldgen configuration issue, which is not portal related.

If you feel portals are an issue, please create an issue and document your concerns.

Back on this issue, we have 3 people that seemed to have the same concern so it feels very legitimate.

I would suggest it is better to say "my experience is different to this" rather than "I don't think it's an issue because in my world x, y,z". The second sentence is dismissive. It says my experience is different so this is likely wrong. We need to be open to issues. Maybe even add in a needs more discussion tag, but I don't feel that players should have to battle for the existence of an issue. We either disprove it, or debate it's priority, or we be open to that it is a possibility.

> > Trust me, it's off. I've only really seen those 2 biomes. Saw one soul sand, and 1 bassalt. I've dug 100s of blocks in every direction. Many different portals. > > > > I've never seen a magma cube or ghast, and those were iconic in their presence in the nether. It almost feels safe, which doesn't feel right. > > > > Basically Preass had exactly the same experience as me. > > Not denying that. Just pointing out one of the main issues that we all have when encountering this. > > > You've dismissed stuff before based on your rng before, but try not to, as when multiple experience something, it starts to strengthen the case. > > Well, I am not dismissing this. But I am pointing out that one of the main issues is probably that the portals just don't go to the different areas. I mean the Mapgen may very well be off, but if all 50 nearby portals only go to one small spot, that's going to cement the belief that that's all there is to the nether. What can do is, collect the seeds that this is encountered on, and then use /findbiome to look at the missing biomes. I rather think that we probably won't find end (nether) portals in those. > > Oh, and on the lapis / diamond thing, I looked up the probabilities for their generation, and I think that the implementation is off a good bit. (tbf, there, the distribution statements are confusing as heck, so I could see it being misimplemented.) > > Another note on this, there are less nether biomes than there are overworld biomes, but it sprawls out the same amount of space. So, you could have to go a couple *thousand* nodes to find the next biome over. I do think that they are there, it's just that it might be extremely difficult to access them. > > There are 5 Nether Biomes, compared to 34+ overworld biomes. And those (both sets) are spread out over 62k x 62k x 128. And, with the overworld portals going to the nearest (x,z) portal instead of random portals across all of the Nether Dimension... odds are *you're lucky to see 2 of the 5 biomes.* > > So, unless your travelling and exploring the entire world (yeah, that would so *not* be me), you will never see the others. > > This is why I said that the portals should be looked at first - if nearby portals took the player to different areas, players would have a richer Nether experience. (FYI, you cannot delete the nether and get new portals even.) I'm not saying we don't need to look at portals, but it's a different issue entirely. I have used portals to travel 8 blocks in the overworld for 1 in the nether, so it's pretty accurate in that regard. In my opinion, this is a worldgen configuration issue, which is not portal related. If you feel portals are an issue, please create an issue and document your concerns. Back on this issue, we have 3 people that seemed to have the same concern so it feels very legitimate. I would suggest it is better to say "my experience is different to this" rather than "I don't think it's an issue because in my world x, y,z". The second sentence is dismissive. It says my experience is different so this is likely wrong. We need to be open to issues. Maybe even add in a needs more discussion tag, but I don't feel that players should have to battle for the existence of an issue. We either disprove it, or debate it's priority, or we be open to that it is a possibility.

Michieal commented

2022-12-18 14:53:00 +01:00

I'm not saying we don't need to look at portals, but it's a different issue entirely. I have used portals to travel 8 blocks in the overworld for 1 in the nether, so it's pretty accurate in that regard.

If you feel portals are an issue, please create an issue and document your concerns.

Noted, and I will when I get back.

Back on this issue, we have 3 people that seemed to have the same concern so it feels very legitimate.

Make that 4, as I have yet to even see Warped Forests or Crimson forests. All of mine, I get stuck in the basic Nether. (Haven't tried yet on starcore with the latest master.)

I would suggest it is better to say "my experience is different to this" rather than "I don't think it's an issue because in my world x, y,z". The second sentence is dismissive. It says my experience is different so you are likely wrong. We need to be open to issues. Maybe even add in a needs more discussion tag, but I don't feel that players should have to battle for the existence of an issue. We either disprove it, or debate it's priority, or we be open to that it is a possibility.

I understand that, but I never said "I don't think it's an issue because in my world x, y,z". I just didn't.

Also, since the Nether is one of the main selling points, I think that this should have an elevated priority.

> I'm not saying we don't need to look at portals, but it's a different issue entirely. I have used portals to travel 8 blocks in the overworld for 1 in the nether, so it's pretty accurate in that regard. > > If you feel portals are an issue, please create an issue and document your concerns. Noted, and I will when I get back. > Back on this issue, we have 3 people that seemed to have the same concern so it feels very legitimate. Make that 4, as I have yet to even see Warped Forests or Crimson forests. All of mine, I get stuck in the basic Nether. (Haven't tried yet on starcore with the latest master.) > I would suggest it is better to say "my experience is different to this" rather than "I don't think it's an issue because in my world x, y,z". The second sentence is dismissive. It says my experience is different so you are likely wrong. We need to be open to issues. Maybe even add in a needs more discussion tag, but I don't feel that players should have to battle for the existence of an issue. We either disprove it, or debate it's priority, or we be open to that it is a possibility. I understand that, but I *never said* "I don't think it's an issue because in my world x, y,z". I just didn't. Also, since the Nether is one of the main selling points, I think that this should have an elevated priority.

👍 1

Ghost commented

2022-12-18 15:33:29 +01:00

It is with issues such as these that I wish we had a Chunkbase for MineClone 2 worlds. That would make it so much easier to solve problems that have anything to do with mapgen.

👍 2 ❤️ 1

Michieal referenced this issue

2022-12-18 16:11:10 +01:00

Nether Portal Issues. #3146

Michieal added the

core feature

#P3: elevated

needs discussion

labels 2022-12-18 16:13:37 +01:00

ancientmarinerdev commented

2022-12-18 21:42:21 +01:00

I'm not saying we don't need to look at portals, but it's a different issue entirely. I have used portals to travel 8 blocks in the overworld for 1 in the nether, so it's pretty accurate in that regard.

If you feel portals are an issue, please create an issue and document your concerns.

Noted, and I will when I get back.

Back on this issue, we have 3 people that seemed to have the same concern so it feels very legitimate.

Make that 4, as I have yet to even see Warped Forests or Crimson forests. All of mine, I get stuck in the basic Nether. (Haven't tried yet on starcore with the latest master.)

I would suggest it is better to say "my experience is different to this" rather than "I don't think it's an issue because in my world x, y,z". The second sentence is dismissive. It says my experience is different so you are likely wrong. We need to be open to issues. Maybe even add in a needs more discussion tag, but I don't feel that players should have to battle for the existence of an issue. We either disprove it, or debate it's priority, or we be open to that it is a possibility.

I understand that, but I never said "I don't think it's an issue because in my world x, y,z". I just didn't.

Also, since the Nether is one of the main selling points, I think that this should have an elevated priority.

"I wouldn't say that the balance is off, as much as I would say that the portal code needs to be looked at, to sufficiently resolve this."

This sentence implies that the balance isn't off, and it is only perception due to the portal code.

"But, the balance may indeed be off." But then you do lightly suggest it has a point, but the first sentence does take some steps to negate what people are saying. Maybe you didn't intend that, but that's how it comes across.

I think sometimes in the past when a ticket has been raised, people have been too quick to dismiss it (i'm not saying this is you neccesarily) and I would like us to try and be open, and say "maybe, we're not sure yet. We'll check it out". We should only dismiss if we're certain, because I've seen valid issues being shrugged off and then we later find out they're true. We need to avoid that as it isn't a good look and isn't welcoming for people wanting to raise bugs.

> > I'm not saying we don't need to look at portals, but it's a different issue entirely. I have used portals to travel 8 blocks in the overworld for 1 in the nether, so it's pretty accurate in that regard. > > > > If you feel portals are an issue, please create an issue and document your concerns. > > Noted, and I will when I get back. > > > Back on this issue, we have 3 people that seemed to have the same concern so it feels very legitimate. > > Make that 4, as I have yet to even see Warped Forests or Crimson forests. All of mine, I get stuck in the basic Nether. (Haven't tried yet on starcore with the latest master.) > > > I would suggest it is better to say "my experience is different to this" rather than "I don't think it's an issue because in my world x, y,z". The second sentence is dismissive. It says my experience is different so you are likely wrong. We need to be open to issues. Maybe even add in a needs more discussion tag, but I don't feel that players should have to battle for the existence of an issue. We either disprove it, or debate it's priority, or we be open to that it is a possibility. > > I understand that, but I *never said* "I don't think it's an issue because in my world x, y,z". I just didn't. > > Also, since the Nether is one of the main selling points, I think that this should have an elevated priority. "I wouldn't say that the balance is off, as much as I would say that the portal code needs to be looked at, to sufficiently resolve this." This sentence implies that the balance isn't off, and it is only perception due to the portal code. "But, the balance may indeed be off." But then you do lightly suggest it has a point, but the first sentence does take some steps to negate what people are saying. Maybe you didn't intend that, but that's how it comes across. I think sometimes in the past when a ticket has been raised, people have been too quick to dismiss it (i'm not saying this is you neccesarily) and I would like us to try and be open, and say "maybe, we're not sure yet. We'll check it out". We should only dismiss if we're certain, because I've seen valid issues being shrugged off and then we later find out they're true. We need to avoid that as it isn't a good look and isn't welcoming for people wanting to raise bugs.

Michieal commented

2022-12-18 21:58:34 +01:00

"But, the balance may indeed be off." But then you do lightly suggest it has a point, but the first sentence does take some steps to negate what people are saying. Maybe you didn't intend that, but that's how it comes across.

Yeah, I really didn't intend that perception of me. I more meant that the portals should also be looked at in RE to this issue. If we can set up a nearby portal to go to a different biome in the nether, that would make finding different areas a lot easier on the players. Admittedly, there's a few issues with how the portals work.

I think sometimes in the past when a ticket has been raised, people have been too quick to dismiss it (i'm not saying this is you neccesarily) and I would like us to try and be open, and say "maybe, we're not sure yet. We'll check it out". We should only dismiss if we're certain, because I've seen valid issues being shrugged off and then we later find out they're true. We need to avoid that as it isn't a good look and isn't welcoming for people wanting to raise bugs.

I agree that it's not a good look, and I apologize for giving off any kind of dismissal on this. I know that I have brought up nether issues with the previous maintainer a few times, and I think that may have been part of the nether rework.

I also think, that this issue applies to more than just the two biomes mentioned. And, I say that because players seem to get stuck with just one, or two if they are lucky, nether areas and they can never find a different area. Which, is a major issue in my mind.

> "But, the balance may indeed be off." But then you do lightly suggest it has a point, but the first sentence does take some steps to negate what people are saying. Maybe you didn't intend that, but that's how it comes across. Yeah, I really didn't intend that perception of me. I more meant that the portals should also be looked at in RE to this issue. If we can set up a nearby portal to go to a different biome in the nether, that would make finding different areas a lot easier on the players. Admittedly, there's a few issues with how the portals work. > I think sometimes in the past when a ticket has been raised, people have been too quick to dismiss it (i'm not saying this is you neccesarily) and I would like us to try and be open, and say "maybe, we're not sure yet. We'll check it out". We should only dismiss if we're certain, because I've seen valid issues being shrugged off and then we later find out they're true. We need to avoid that as it isn't a good look and isn't welcoming for people wanting to raise bugs. I agree that it's not a good look, and I apologize for giving off any kind of dismissal on this. I know that I have brought up nether issues with the previous maintainer a few times, and I think that may have been part of the nether rework. I also think, that this issue applies to more than just the two biomes mentioned. And, I say that because players seem to get stuck with just one, or two if they are lucky, nether areas and they can never find a different area. Which, is a major issue in my mind.

👍 1 ❤️ 1

ancientmarinerdev commented

2022-12-18 22:19:48 +01:00

Biomes could just be too big, or maybe it's attempt at random is dreadful.

Michieal commented

2022-12-19 18:00:20 +01:00

Biomes could just be too big, or maybe it's attempt at random is dreadful.

I'm willing to bet both. The first, because it has 5 biomes spread out across the entire width and breadth of the map. And the second, because I have looked into it's randomization and yeah... not that great.

> Biomes could just be too big, or maybe it's attempt at random is dreadful. I'm willing to bet both. The first, because it has 5 biomes spread out across the entire width and breadth of the map. And the second, because I have looked into it's randomization and yeah... not that great.

SmokeyDope referenced this issue

2023-02-09 02:16:05 +01:00

Nether Portal Issues. #3146

Michieal referenced this issue

2023-02-09 13:55:17 +01:00

Nether Portal Issues. #3146

ancientmarinerdev added this to the 0.84.0 - Very Nice milestone 2023-03-21 03:27:25 +01:00

ancientmarinerdev modified the milestone from 0.84.0 - Very Nice to 3 - Near future

2023-04-04 21:17:18 +02:00

ancientmarinerdev modified the milestone from 3 - Near future to 0.85.0 - Fire and Stone

2023-05-11 14:45:40 +02:00

ancientmarinerdev modified the milestone from 0.85.0 - Fire and Stone to 2 - Next