Improve the controls #2193

New Issue

kneekoo · 2022-05-10T06:18:35+02:00

kneekoo commented

2022-05-10 06:18:35 +02:00

Source: Controls, Keyboard Shortcuts & F3 - Caves & Cliffs Update 1.18, by Pixlriffs

That's a great tutorial for newbies that also efficiently describes very useful functionality that we're missing. Ideally, we should have as many controls as possible done as Minecraft does it, which is very useful for:

people who come from Minecraft and can handle our game instantly
those of us who play both games, to avoid confusing key bindings
those who start playing Minecraft after MineClone2, who will (or should :P) be grateful

Clearly, there might be a few things that we can't do the same or at all, because our engines are different. But everything done towards better and more compatible controls and mechanics would be great.

Source: [Controls, Keyboard Shortcuts & F3 - Caves & Cliffs Update 1.18](https://youtu.be/bkQqqxpqFo0), *by Pixlriffs* That's a great tutorial for newbies that also efficiently describes very useful functionality that we're missing. Ideally, we should have as many controls as possible done as Minecraft does it, which is very useful for: - people who come from Minecraft and can handle our game instantly - those of us who play both games, to avoid confusing key bindings - those who start playing Minecraft after MineClone2, who will (or should :P) be grateful Clearly, there might be a few things that we can't do the same or at all, because our engines are different. But everything done towards better and more compatible controls and mechanics would be great.

👍 1

kneekoo added the

controls

incomplete feature

enhancement

labels 2022-05-10 06:18:35 +02:00

kneekoo changed title from ~~Improve controls~~ to Improve the controls

2022-05-10 06:30:17 +02:00

erle commented

2022-05-10 12:33:25 +02:00

Please be more specific.

cora commented

2022-05-10 12:48:01 +02:00

we generally don't have a whole lot of control about controls hehe.

but yeah a lot of that actually works already. what specifically are you missing ?

we generally don't have a whole lot of control about controls hehe. but yeah a lot of that actually works already. what specifically are you missing ?

kneekoo commented

2022-05-10 17:12:19 +02:00

It's actually more than just cotrols (keyboard shortcuts) and I was hoping I wouldn't have to transcribe stuff - it's 15 minutes well worth watching. Anyway...

03:58 Dropping Items

they use Q to drop 1 item, and Ctrl+Q for a whole stack
we use Q for a whole stack, and Shift-Q for one item: this is actually bad because you can accidentally drop a whole stack in lava/void/etc

4:40 The Inventory

their recipe book is a button that toggles the crafting recipes and keeps the inventory in sight
the least we could do is add a button to close the crafting recipes and return to the inventory, but integrating the crafting guide and the inventory to make them work like in Minecraft would be so much better

05:18 Moving Items

Shift-clicking in Minecraft moves the items between the inventory and the hotbar

06:05 Splitting Items

Minecraft distributes items evenly in the targeted slots when a stack is dragged with the left click (see 6:42); this enables making redstone/iron/gold/etc blocks in one swipe across the crafting grid.

07:07 Collecting Items

Minecraft combines identical items (found in different slots) when you double-click one, so you can move them all in one go (see 7:07)
in Minecraft you can move multiple stacks of the same item by Shift-double-clicking it while holding another item (see 7:34)
in Minecraft, Q and Ctrl-Q work normally to drop items if your mouse pointer is above a, inventory/hotbar slot

08:21 Inventory Shortcuts

pressing 1-9 while hovering over any slot (inventory or hotbar) moves/swaps the content between the targeted slots, and it works even with the crafting grid (see 8:21 for a demonstration)
just the same, pressing F wile hovering over the crafting output, you can place that item directly in your off-hand (see 9:00)
Shift-clicking stuff while working with the crafting table (not with the 2x2 grid) moves it to the crafting grid (see 9:14; this is not great for us, just as #2140 isn't)

09:25 Pick Block

(creative) watch this to see how the middle-click can be useful to get stacks of blocks that you're pointing at, instead of going in the menu

10:05 Function Keys

can anything be done to add more information in the debug info? having the light level for the targeted block, and biome name, is very useful information

13:29 Other Notes

pressing L for Achievements is a nice thing to have (13:34); is it doable for us?

It's actually more than just cotrols (keyboard shortcuts) and I was hoping I wouldn't have to transcribe stuff - it's 15 minutes well worth watching. Anyway... > 03:58 Dropping Items - they use Q to drop 1 item, and Ctrl+Q for a whole stack - we use Q for a whole stack, and Shift-Q for one item: this is actually bad because you can accidentally drop a whole stack in lava/void/etc > 4:40 The Inventory - their recipe book is a button that toggles the crafting recipes and keeps the inventory in sight - the least we could do is add a button to close the crafting recipes and return to the inventory, but integrating the crafting guide and the inventory to make them work like in Minecraft would be so much better > 05:18 Moving Items - Shift-clicking in Minecraft moves the items between the inventory and the hotbar > 06:05 Splitting Items - Minecraft distributes items evenly in the targeted slots when a stack is dragged with the left click (see 6:42); this enables making redstone/iron/gold/etc blocks in one swipe across the crafting grid. > 07:07 Collecting Items - Minecraft combines identical items (found in different slots) when you double-click one, so you can move them all in one go (see 7:07) - in Minecraft you can move multiple stacks of the same item by Shift-double-clicking it while holding another item (see 7:34) - in Minecraft, Q and Ctrl-Q work normally to drop items if your mouse pointer is above a, inventory/hotbar slot > 08:21 Inventory Shortcuts - pressing 1-9 while hovering over any slot (inventory or hotbar) moves/swaps the content between the targeted slots, and it works even with the crafting grid (see 8:21 for a demonstration) - just the same, pressing F wile hovering over the crafting output, you can place that item directly in your off-hand (see 9:00) - Shift-clicking stuff while working with the crafting table (not with the 2x2 grid) moves it to the crafting grid (see 9:14; this is not great for us, just as #2140 isn't) > 09:25 Pick Block - (creative) watch this to see how the middle-click can be useful to get stacks of blocks that you're pointing at, instead of going in the menu > 10:05 Function Keys - can anything be done to add more information in the debug info? having the light level for the targeted block, and biome name, is very useful information > 13:29 Other Notes - pressing L for Achievements is a nice thing to have (13:34); is it doable for us?

👍 1

cora commented

2022-05-10 17:47:06 +02:00

Everything that uses arbitrary keys is out AFAIK. The shift click things might be possible. Its a lot better in mcla IMO but I think it was changed in mcl2 to equip armor with shift click.

The debug info is from minetest theres no way for a game to add stuff to it.

Everything that uses arbitrary keys is out AFAIK. The shift click things might be possible. Its a lot better in mcla IMO but I think it was changed in mcl2 to equip armor with shift click. The debug info is from minetest theres no way for a game to add stuff to it.

erle commented

2022-05-10 18:46:22 +02:00

I think it was changed in mcl2 to equip armor with shift click.

What exactly was changed? Equipping armor is a bit rare I think.

> I think it was changed in mcl2 to equip armor with shift click. What exactly was changed? Equipping armor is a bit rare I think.

erle commented

2022-05-10 18:48:11 +02:00

pressing L for Achievements is a nice thing to have (13:34); is it doable for us?

Probably not with the current state of the engine, talk to v-rob in #minetest-dev @ libera.chat about your use case to talk about future engine plans.

Note that a lot of computers on which Minetest can run do not even have an “L” key.

> pressing L for Achievements is a nice thing to have (13:34); is it doable for us? Probably not with the current state of the engine, talk to v-rob in #minetest-dev @ libera.chat about your use case to talk about future engine plans. Note that a lot of computers on which Minetest can run do not even *have* an “L” key.

👀 1 😆 1

erle commented

2022-05-10 18:50:24 +02:00

they use Q to drop 1 item, and Ctrl+Q for a whole stack
we use Q for a whole stack, and Shift-Q for one item: this is actually bad because you can accidentally drop a whole stack in lava/void/etc

The problem with reversing the control scheme here is obviously that it may lead to people accustomed to the current control scheme to accidentally drop a whole stack.

> they use Q to drop 1 item, and Ctrl+Q for a whole stack > we use Q for a whole stack, and Shift-Q for one item: this is actually bad because you can accidentally drop a whole stack in lava/void/etc The problem with reversing the control scheme here is obviously that it may lead to people accustomed to the current control scheme to accidentally drop a whole stack.

kneekoo commented

2022-05-10 20:18:36 +02:00

they use Q to drop 1 item, and Ctrl+Q for a whole stack
we use Q for a whole stack, and Shift-Q for one item: this is actually bad because you can accidentally drop a whole stack in lava/void/etc

The problem with reversing the control scheme here is obviously that it may lead to people accustomed to the current control scheme to accidentally drop a whole stack.

True, but I never understood why we have a single key to drop a whole stack. It makes more sense to make an extra effort to drop a whole stack. And Q is even next to WASD, so accidents can happen (and it happened to me a few times).

Everything that uses arbitrary keys is out AFAIK. The shift click things might be possible. Its a lot better in mcla IMO but I think it was changed in mcl2 to equip armor with shift click.

What about the rest? Splitting a stack evenly is super useful, and that depends on dragging a stack while holding down the left mouse button.

The debug info is from minetest theres no way for a game to add stuff to it.

Can we toggle debug info of our own by using a key?

> > they use Q to drop 1 item, and Ctrl+Q for a whole stack > > we use Q for a whole stack, and Shift-Q for one item: this is actually bad because you can accidentally drop a whole stack in lava/void/etc > > The problem with reversing the control scheme here is obviously that it may lead to people accustomed to the current control scheme to accidentally drop a whole stack. True, but I never understood why we have a single key to drop a whole stack. It makes more sense to make an extra effort to drop a whole stack. And Q is even next to WASD, so accidents can happen *(and it happened to me a few times)*. > Everything that uses arbitrary keys is out AFAIK. The shift click things might be possible. Its a lot better in mcla IMO but I think it was changed in mcl2 to equip armor with shift click. What about the rest? Splitting a stack evenly is super useful, and that depends on dragging a stack while holding down the left mouse button. > The debug info is from minetest theres no way for a game to add stuff to it. Can we toggle debug info of our own by using a key?

cora commented

2022-05-10 23:16:30 +02:00

Cant you split a stack evenly when you rightclick it ?

cora commented

2022-05-10 23:17:35 +02:00

honestly i dont know a whole lot about this. Never actually did anything in this area this is just from general knowledge and playing experience of mt and mcl

cora commented

2022-05-10 23:18:36 +02:00

Can we toggle debug info of our own by using a key?

not using a key afaics. But we could make a custom debug hud - how it would be activated is another question i suppose

> Can we toggle debug info of our own by using a key? not using a key afaics. But we could make a custom debug hud - how it would be activated is another question i suppose

kneekoo commented

2022-05-11 08:25:14 +02:00

Cant you split a stack evenly when you rightclick it ?

This is where watching the video makes it really easy to understand. Yes, right-cliking does split a stack in half, but by left-click dragging you can split it across multiple slots. This is particularly useful when you have a full stack of redstone dust and you want to make redstone blocks.

You click and hold the left mouse button, then move that stack across the 9 slots in the crafting table and each slot will get 7 items, leaving you with a single item in your hand. Then you can get the 7 redstone blocks from the crafting table output. It's extremely convenient.

So not only we don't integrate the crafting recipes so we can click those and generate the input from our inventory (see 4:40), but we don't have this feature either. So we end up splitting items manually or dragging that stack 7 times across the 9 slots of the crafting table.

Please watch that video, and consider it insightful entertainment if not anything else. :P

> Cant you split a stack evenly when you rightclick it ? This is where watching the video makes it really easy to understand. Yes, right-cliking does split a stack in half, but by left-click dragging you can split it across multiple slots. This is particularly useful when you have a full stack of redstone dust and you want to make redstone blocks. You click and hold the left mouse button, then move that stack across the 9 slots in the crafting table and each slot will get 7 items, leaving you with a single item in your hand. Then you can get the 7 redstone blocks from the crafting table output. It's extremely convenient. So not only we don't integrate the crafting recipes so we can click those and generate the input from our inventory (see 4:40), but we don't have this feature either. So we end up splitting items manually or dragging that stack 7 times across the 9 slots of the crafting table. Please watch that video, and consider it insightful entertainment if not anything else. :P

cora commented

2022-05-11 11:12:41 +02:00

I see. While that sounds nice afaics we can't really do anything about that.

kneekoo commented

2022-05-11 17:37:08 +02:00

Is anything doable at all from the list I posted?

erle commented

2022-05-11 18:56:01 +02:00

@kneekoo have you talked to v-rob?

cora commented

2022-05-11 19:40:24 +02:00

Is anything doable at all from the list I posted?

Not sure. Nothing that I'd immediately how to do anyways but like I said I'm not really en expert in this kind of stuff. But I'm not sure we can influence behavior of controls while in formspecs at all if I think about it

> Is anything doable at all from the list I posted? Not sure. Nothing that I'd immediately how to do anyways but like I said I'm not really en expert in this kind of stuff. But I'm not sure we can influence behavior of controls while in formspecs at all if I think about it

kneekoo commented

2022-05-11 19:57:40 +02:00

@kneekoo have you talked to v-rob?

Not yet, I wanted to get more feedback here before asking.

> @kneekoo have you talked to v-rob? Not yet, I wanted to get more feedback here before asking.

erle commented

2022-05-11 20:00:29 +02:00

@kneekoo have you talked to v-rob?

Not yet, I wanted to get more feedback here before asking.

Look, I doubt anything you want is possible in MTE rn, but v-rob has been working on something to make mods handle keyboard input. So just ask v-rob about your use cases.

> > @kneekoo have you talked to v-rob? > > Not yet, I wanted to get more feedback here before asking. Look, I doubt anything you want is possible in MTE rn, but v-rob has been working on something to make mods handle keyboard input. So just ask v-rob about your use cases.

👍 1

kneekoo commented

2022-05-30 01:39:00 +02:00

For reference, an open Minetest issue that might help us bind more keys for certain features that I mentioned:

Add Aux2 key for games to use freely, and maybe Aux3, Aux4, etc.?

For reference, an open Minetest issue that might help us bind more keys for certain features that I mentioned: [Add Aux2 key for games to use freely, and maybe Aux3, Aux4, etc.?](https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11446)

basxto commented

2023-08-24 17:47:34 +02:00

Since it came up on discord/matrix.

We can replicate some similar functionality with buttons, even though we can’t bind it to all those click combinations.

https://content.minetest.net/packages/mt-mods/unified_inventory_plus/ adds buttons to spread an item in the crafting grid. (only works if there is only one item inside)

The screenshot on ContentDB is a bit outdated, there are more buttons now … including a button that rotates the crafting grid.

Since it came up on discord/matrix. We can replicate some similar functionality with buttons, even though we can’t bind it to all those click combinations. https://content.minetest.net/packages/mt-mods/unified_inventory_plus/ adds buttons to spread an item in the crafting grid. (only works if there is only one item inside) The screenshot on ContentDB is a bit outdated, there are more buttons now … including a button that rotates the crafting grid.

08-24_17:11_554x332.png

54 KiB

haui commented

2024-03-06 12:29:21 +01:00

I stumbled accross this today when I was trying to move an item away from my hotbar into the inventory to free up space (shift click on the item in the hotbar while inventory open). I see this has been mentioned. is this possible? if yes, is it being worked on? If no, can I help?

the-real-herowl commented

2024-03-06 13:01:53 +01:00

I stumbled accross this today when I was trying to move an item away from my hotbar into the inventory to free up space (shift click on the item in the hotbar while inventory open). I see this has been mentioned. is this possible? if yes, is it being worked on? If no, can I help?

There are some priority definitions in the inventory formspec... MTE GUI definitions are still quite arcane though.

> I stumbled accross this today when I was trying to move an item away from my hotbar into the inventory to free up space (shift click on the item in the hotbar while inventory open). I see this has been mentioned. is this possible? if yes, is it being worked on? If no, can I help? There are some priority definitions in the inventory formspec... MTE GUI definitions are still quite arcane though.

kneekoo referenced this issue

2024-05-30 20:44:13 +02:00

Add a "New version" notification or dialog #4345

kneekoo commented

2024-05-30 21:12:27 +02:00

Some of the improvements I mentioned initially, that relied on engine features, have been added. So I shortened the list to limit the scope of the issue to what might be achievable.

03:58 Dropping Items

they use Q to drop 1 item, and Ctrl+Q for a whole stack

we use Q for a whole stack, and Shift-Q for one item: this is actually bad because you can accidentally drop a whole stack in lava/void/etc

^ Changing the above can be problematic. But accidentally hitting Q and losing a full stack is bad, so I think we should offer the option to switch the drop functionality. Informing players about this would be nice for those who want to change, and I made a generic proposal in #4345 that would cover this and other needs as well.

4:40 The Inventory

their recipe book is a button that toggles the crafting recipes and keeps the inventory in sight

the least we could do is add a button to close the crafting recipes and return to the inventory, but integrating the crafting guide and the inventory to make them work like in Minecraft would be so much better

^ Adding #4334 would be nice until we rework the crafting UI.

05:18 Moving Items

Shift-clicking in Minecraft moves the items between the inventory and the hotbar

^ We currently move these between the crafting grid and the hotbar or, if full, the player storage.

09:25 Pick Block

(creative) watch this to see how the middle-click can be useful to get stacks of blocks that you're pointing at, instead of going in the menu

^ We had an attempt in #3473, but there were a few special cases that required attention and the PR fell in limbo.

Some of the improvements I mentioned initially, that relied on engine features, have been added. So I shortened the list to limit the scope of the issue to what might be achievable. > > 03:58 Dropping Items > - they use Q to drop 1 item, and Ctrl+Q for a whole stack > - we use Q for a whole stack, and Shift-Q for one item: this is actually bad because you can accidentally drop a whole stack in lava/void/etc ^ Changing the above can be problematic. But accidentally hitting Q and losing a full stack is bad, so I think we should offer the option to switch the drop functionality. Informing players about this would be nice for those who want to change, and I made a generic proposal in #4345 that would cover this and other needs as well. > > 4:40 The Inventory > - their recipe book is a button that toggles the crafting recipes and keeps the inventory in sight > - the least we could do is add a button to close the crafting recipes and return to the inventory, but integrating the crafting guide and the inventory to make them work like in Minecraft would be so much better ^ Adding #4334 would be nice until we rework the crafting UI. > > 05:18 Moving Items > - Shift-clicking in Minecraft moves the items between the inventory and the hotbar ^ We currently move these between the crafting grid and the hotbar or, if full, the player storage. > > 09:25 Pick Block > - (creative) watch this to see how the middle-click can be useful to get stacks of blocks that you're pointing at, instead of going in the menu ^ We had an attempt in #3473, but there were a few special cases that required attention and the PR fell in limbo.

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