Proposal: world configuration dialog. #2147

New Issue

kabou · 2022-04-27T17:49:38+02:00

kabou commented

2022-04-27 17:49:38 +02:00

Minetest does not provide us with the means to set per world custom configuration options when a new world is created in minetest's main menu. In order to be able to set mineclone related world options, we need to find an alternative solution for this that works at or near world initialization. Additionally, this needs to be compatible with existing worlds.

Here is a sketched outline of a tentative configuration mechanism for setting initial parameters for new worlds and for setting dynamic parameters for existing worlds. Comments, criticisms and alternative approaches are welcome.

Upon startup of the game, we first thing we do is check for the presence of mcl_world.conf in the world directory. If this file is present, we read the world's settings and continue as usual. If this file is not present, we check if the world is a newly created world.

If it is not a new world, we create a new mcl_world.conf with defaults for "old world" and continue the game with configuration settings for an "old world".
If it is a new world, we suspend lua mapgen operations and wait for an initial user to join the game. When that happens, we temporarily block additional users from joining, and prompt the initial user with the world configuration dialog. Once the user has finished the configuration, we write those settings to mcl_world.conf and resume the suspended loa mapgen operations with the new settings. Finally we spawn the initial user in the newly created world and re-enable other users to join.

While the game runs, a user with sufficient privileges can recall the world configuration dialog and alter dynamically configurable settings. Even without the "old world" versus "new world" aspect, having in-game configurability would be a really nice enhancement of usability.

Minetest does not provide us with the means to set per world custom configuration options when a new world is created in minetest's main menu. In order to be able to set mineclone related world options, we need to find an alternative solution for this that works at or near world initialization. Additionally, this needs to be compatible with existing worlds. Here is a sketched outline of a tentative configuration mechanism for setting initial parameters for new worlds and for setting dynamic parameters for existing worlds. Comments, criticisms and alternative approaches are welcome. Upon startup of the game, we first thing we do is check for the presence of `mcl_world.conf` in the world directory. If this file is present, we read the world's settings and continue as usual. If this file is not present, we check if the world is a newly created world. * If it is not a new world, we create a new `mcl_world.conf` with defaults for "old world" and continue the game with configuration settings for an "old world". * If it is a new world, we suspend lua mapgen operations and wait for an initial user to join the game. When that happens, we temporarily block additional users from joining, and prompt the initial user with the world configuration dialog. Once the user has finished the configuration, we write those settings to `mcl_world.conf` and resume the suspended loa mapgen operations with the new settings. Finally we spawn the initial user in the newly created world and re-enable other users to join. While the game runs, a user with sufficient privileges can recall the world configuration dialog and alter dynamically configurable settings. Even without the "old world" versus "new world" aspect, having in-game configurability would be a really nice enhancement of usability.

kabou added the

labels 2022-04-27 17:49:38 +02:00

kabou referenced this issue

2022-04-27 17:50:15 +02:00

Add deepslate, copper and raw_ores by NO11 #2141

kabou referenced this issue

2022-04-27 17:52:15 +02:00

Add blackstone by debian044 #2142

cora commented

2022-04-27 18:44:26 +02:00

Please do some experiments before putting serious work in. It sounds like you do not fully understand how mapgen works. The terrain generation in the overworld is not lua mapgen. (Or only rather small parts of it are).

I think to prevent mapgen from going you might have to spawn the player high up in the sky or or something - not even sure that would work but its the only way I can imagine.

Please do some experiments before putting serious work in. It sounds like you do not fully understand how mapgen works. The terrain generation in the overworld is not lua mapgen. (Or only rather small parts of it are). I think to prevent mapgen from going you might have to spawn the player high up in the sky or or something - not even sure that would work but its the only way I can imagine.

kneekoo commented

2022-04-28 01:00:07 +02:00

I think to prevent mapgen from going you might have to spawn the player high up in the sky or or something - not even sure that would work but its the only way I can imagine.

I'm not sure how Minetest does it, but Minecraft has a feature of keeping the world spawn chunks always loaded, which I assume has some technical advantages. It also helps players who want non-stop working farms and contraptions.

> I think to prevent mapgen from going you might have to spawn the player high up in the sky or or something - not even sure that would work but its the only way I can imagine. I'm not sure how Minetest does it, but Minecraft has a feature of keeping the [world spawn chunks always loaded](https://minecraft.fandom.com/wiki/Spawn_chunk), which I assume has some technical advantages. It also helps players who want non-stop working farms and contraptions.

cora commented

2022-04-28 01:03:37 +02:00

Yeah I think minetest might have something similar which is why i said i'm not sure it would even work.

kabou commented

2022-04-28 11:27:42 +02:00

Please do some experiments before putting serious work in. It sounds like you do not fully understand how mapgen works. The terrain generation in the overworld is not lua mapgen. (Or only rather small parts of it are).

I think to prevent mapgen from going you might have to spawn the player high up in the sky or or something - not even sure that would work but its the only way I can imagine.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume that upon game start in a new world, minetest mapgen generates a limited number of blocks around the world spawn, which mineclone2 lua mapgen can then reprocess. It is the lua reprocessing that I want to suspend and then later, after the initial configuration is finished, reactivate with the options that were set during configuration.

> Please do some experiments before putting serious work in. It sounds like you do not fully understand how mapgen works. The terrain generation in the overworld is not lua mapgen. (Or only rather small parts of it are). > > I think to prevent mapgen from going you might have to spawn the player high up in the sky or or something - not even sure that would work but its the only way I can imagine. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume that upon game start in a new world, minetest mapgen generates a limited number of blocks around the world spawn, which mineclone2 lua mapgen can then reprocess. It is the lua reprocessing that I want to suspend and then later, after the initial configuration is finished, reactivate with the options that were set during configuration.

cora commented

2022-04-28 11:33:25 +02:00

you could maybe do that yeah but idk it would be pretty hacky. I don't say this often but it should prob be provided by minetest.

If it works and we do this we really need to think it through though

you could maybe do that yeah but idk it would be pretty hacky. I don't say this often but it should prob be provided by minetest. If it works and we do this we really need to think it through though

kabou commented

2022-04-28 11:52:23 +02:00

you could maybe do that yeah but idk it would be pretty hacky. I don't say this often but it should prob be provided by minetest.

Agreed, but minetest doesn't, that is essentially why we need to hack around it.

If it works and we do this we really need to think it through though

Agreed and it is the reason why I added the needs discussion and needs research tags to this issue. I hope to soon have a POC WIP: PR to evaluate, but I'd like the main discussion to stay with this issue.

> you could maybe do that yeah but idk it would be pretty hacky. I don't say this often but it should prob be provided by minetest. Agreed, but minetest doesn't, that is essentially why we need to hack around it. > If it works and we do this we really need to think it through though Agreed and it is the reason why I added the `needs discussion` and `needs research` tags to this issue. I hope to soon have a POC WIP: PR to evaluate, but I'd like the main discussion to stay with this issue.

kneekoo commented

2022-04-29 02:37:56 +02:00

If it's just a few chunks around spawn that get generated by the engine, it doesn't seem awfully hacky to deal with them. But this should be brought up in the Minetest issue tracker, so they can give it some thought.

The UI could be revamped to allow pre-configuration for new worlds, or the engine could wait for the game to give it the "go" if the game implements "new world" settings. The second option feels easier to implement, considering it would place the responsibility on the game makers to do their own UIs as they see fit. And it would probably be better too, because it's easier for the game maker to change anything in their own UI.

If it's just a few chunks around spawn that get generated by the engine, it doesn't seem awfully hacky to deal with them. But this should be brought up in the Minetest issue tracker, so they can give it some thought. The UI could be revamped to allow pre-configuration for new worlds, or the engine could wait for the game to give it the "go" if the game implements "new world" settings. The second option feels easier to implement, considering it would place the responsibility on the game makers to do their own UIs as they see fit. And it would probably be better too, because it's easier for the game maker to change anything in their own UI.

kabou commented

2022-04-29 11:18:50 +02:00

If it's just a few chunks around spawn that get generated by the engine, it doesn't seem awfully hacky to deal with them. But this should be brought up in the Minetest issue tracker, so they can give it some thought.

The UI could be revamped to allow pre-configuration for new worlds, or the engine could wait for the game to give it the "go" if the game implements "new world" settings. The second option feels easier to implement, considering it would place the responsibility on the game makers to do their own UIs as they see fit. And it would probably be better too, because it's easier for the game maker to change anything in their own UI.

That would mean that a minetest PR has to be made, approved and merged. Then it will take some time before a new version of minetest that incorporates this functionality is released and even more time before that version is widely distributed.

I think it is a good idea, but not to wait for.

> If it's just a few chunks around spawn that get generated by the engine, it doesn't seem awfully hacky to deal with them. But this should be brought up in the Minetest issue tracker, so they can give it some thought. > > The UI could be revamped to allow pre-configuration for new worlds, or the engine could wait for the game to give it the "go" if the game implements "new world" settings. The second option feels easier to implement, considering it would place the responsibility on the game makers to do their own UIs as they see fit. And it would probably be better too, because it's easier for the game maker to change anything in their own UI. That would mean that a minetest PR has to be made, approved and merged. Then it will take some time before a new version of minetest that incorporates this functionality is released and even more time before that version is widely distributed. I think it is a good idea, but not to wait for.

kneekoo commented

2022-04-29 15:00:25 +02:00

Ok, I hope I did a good case for what we need. If I missed something, join the conversation.

Request in the Minetest issue tracker: Allow games to have a settings UI before entering a world

Ok, I hope I did a good case for what we need. If I missed something, join the conversation. Request in the Minetest issue tracker: [Allow games to have a settings UI before entering a world](https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12246)

👍 1

kneekoo commented

2022-05-05 18:20:00 +02:00

The above issue was marked as duplicate (and closed), but as there's interest for it, I was recommended to open a related issue - which I have. Please join the discussion if you have anything to add. I'm not sure how to best approach the world detection issue and any input on that would be welcome.

Mainmenu: Add a configure menu that games can customize, replacing Select Mods

The above issue was marked as duplicate (and closed), but as there's interest for it, I was recommended to open a related issue - which I have. Please join the discussion if you have anything to add. I'm not sure how to best approach the world detection issue and any input on that would be welcome. [Mainmenu: Add a configure menu that games can customize, replacing Select Mods](https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12273)

kabou commented

2022-05-05 23:39:22 +02:00

Added a comment to the (already closed) minetest issue.

Added [a comment](https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12273#issuecomment-1119066247) to the (already closed) minetest issue.

kneekoo commented

2022-05-11 09:08:07 +02:00

(please watch it when you have some time)

Here's a great video about stuff we can use as inspiration:
Video Settings & Accessibility! - Caves & Cliffs Update 1.18, by Pixlriffs

I won't transcribe the details, but include 2 screenshots for reference.

Accessibility settings (also talked about in #864 and in the Minetest issue tracker)

Video Settings

*(please watch it when you have some time)* Here's a great video about stuff we can use as inspiration: [Video Settings & Accessibility! - Caves & Cliffs Update 1.18](https://youtu.be/W6eYr9lkK_s), *by Pixlriffs* I won't transcribe the details, but include 2 screenshots for reference. Accessibility settings (also talked about in #864 and in the [Minetest issue tracker](https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/10666#issuecomment-733826284)) ![Accessibility Settings menu](https://i.imgur.com/DdyBFsh.jpg) Video Settings ![Video Settings menu](https://i.imgur.com/XWWsZow.jpg)

kneekoo commented

2022-05-11 09:54:51 +02:00

Also of interest, Pixlriffs explains the game rules, and there's quite a list there.

Depending on what our engine allows and what we allow ourselves to customize on the fly or at world creation, it would be nice to have some more important settings in our configuration dialog.

Also of interest, Pixlriffs [explains the game rules](https://youtu.be/RiF7Ub7AOlI?t=1042), and there's quite a list there. Depending on what our engine allows and what we allow ourselves to customize on the fly or at world creation, it would be nice to have some more important settings in our configuration dialog.

kabou referenced this issue

2022-12-03 13:33:47 +01:00

Gamerule API #3053

kabou referenced this issue

2022-12-08 15:31:18 +01:00

Gamerule API #3053

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