Water physics feel different in MC #213

New Issue

Wuzzy · 2018-06-22T08:27:40+02:00

Wuzzy commented

2018-06-22 08:27:40 +02:00

Author: @leorockway Posted at: 03.06.2017 00:28

I adjusted some of my water physics on MT because it feels different in MC. I'm not sure I got my values right, but this is what I have:

movement_liquid_sink = 35
movement_liquid_fluidity_smooth = 0.5
movement_liquid_fluidity = 0.5

Author: @leorockway Posted at: 03.06.2017 00:28 I adjusted some of my water physics on MT because it feels different in MC. I'm not sure I got my values right, but this is what I have: movement_liquid_sink = 35 movement_liquid_fluidity_smooth = 0.5 movement_liquid_fluidity = 0.5

Wuzzy added the

missing feature

gameplay

labels 2018-06-22 08:27:40 +02:00

Wuzzy commented

2018-06-22 08:27:40 +02:00

Author: @Wuzzy2 Posted at: 03.06.2017 02:20

Thank you!

According to http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Transportation, the horizonal swimming speed is higher.

I came up with a movement_liquid_fluidity of 1.13. This gives me a horizontal water movement speed of ca. 1.9-2.0 m/s which roughly matches what the wiki says. Fix is already applied. I used the smooth value of 0.5 like suggested. Feel free to test.

I don't really know about the sink and rising speed. With your suggested values, the sink speed is insane with ca. 4.0 m/s downwards. You sink slower with sneaking! And rising speed is at ca. 1.9 ms/s upwards.

For these tests, the speedometer from my orienteering mod really came in handy! :-)

If you could somehow measure the actual sink and rising speeds in Minecraft, that would be great! Also check if the sinking speed changed when you hold down the sneak key in water.
That way, I can easily compare the speeds and find a sane value.

Author: @Wuzzy2 Posted at: 03.06.2017 02:20 Thank you! According to <http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Transportation>, the horizonal swimming speed is higher. I came up with a `movement_liquid_fluidity` of 1.13. This gives me a horizontal water movement speed of ca. 1.9-2.0 m/s which roughly matches what the wiki says. Fix is already applied. I used the smooth value of 0.5 like suggested. Feel free to test. I don't really know about the sink and rising speed. With your suggested values, the sink speed is insane with ca. 4.0 m/s downwards. You sink slower with sneaking! And rising speed is at ca. 1.9 ms/s upwards. For these tests, the speedometer from my `orienteering` mod really came in handy! :-) If you could somehow measure the actual sink and rising speeds in Minecraft, that would be great! Also check if the sinking speed changed when you hold down the sneak key in water. That way, I can easily compare the speeds and find a sane value.

Wuzzy commented

2018-06-22 08:27:40 +02:00

Author: @leorockway Posted at: 03.06.2017 04:37

The values I shared were a complete guess without any kind of research. I just felt that MT default water felt more like jello. I'll test these new values you added and I'll report back.

Author: @leorockway Posted at: 03.06.2017 04:37 The values I shared were a complete guess without any kind of research. I just felt that MT default water felt more like jello. I'll test these new values you added and I'll report back.

Wuzzy commented

2018-06-22 08:27:40 +02:00

Author: @leorockway Posted at: 03.06.2017 04:54

In Minecraft sneaking has no effect on the sinking speed. I kind of feel that the right sinking speed for MineClone should be the one one gets while sneaking. But this is just a feeling, I have no way of actually measuring this; all I'm doing is switching windows and trying MineClone and Minecraft one after the other.

Edit: Apparently the liquid_sink value of 25 makes it so that sinking with or without the sneaking key is about the same. 35 was indeed really fast with your fluidity.

Author: @leorockway Posted at: 03.06.2017 04:54 In Minecraft sneaking has no effect on the sinking speed. I kind of feel that the right sinking speed for MineClone should be the one one gets while sneaking. But this is just a feeling, I have no way of actually measuring this; all I'm doing is switching windows and trying MineClone and Minecraft one after the other. Edit: Apparently the liquid_sink value of 25 makes it so that sinking with or without the sneaking key is about the same. 35 was indeed really fast with your fluidity.

Wuzzy commented

2018-06-22 08:27:40 +02:00

Author: @Wuzzy2 Posted at: 03.06.2017 05:06

Well there is a very simple way of measuring the speed:
Just sink from the top of the water for a long way down and measure the time it takes to get to the bottom. With number of blocks / time you get the speed.
Same for bottom to top, obviously.

Author: @Wuzzy2 Posted at: 03.06.2017 05:06 Well there is a very simple way of measuring the speed: Just sink from the top of the water for a long way down and measure the time it takes to get to the bottom. With number of blocks / time you get the speed. Same for bottom to top, obviously.

Wuzzy commented

2018-06-22 08:27:41 +02:00

Author: @leorockway Posted at: 03.06.2017 05:30

That same article you linked has vertical waterfall movement speed, which would be more accurate with me using a stopwatch.

Vertical transportation in waterfall:
No adjacent blocks 2.0 m/s
Ascending, with adjacent blocks 0.6 m/s
Descending, with adjacent blocks 3.4 m/s

Author: @leorockway Posted at: 03.06.2017 05:30 That same article you linked has vertical waterfall movement speed, which would be more accurate with me using a stopwatch. Vertical transportation in waterfall: No adjacent blocks 2.0 m/s Ascending, with adjacent blocks 0.6 m/s Descending, with adjacent blocks 3.4 m/s

testa7777777 commented

2020-06-15 11:03:57 +02:00

There are also quirks of water that do not work in mineclone/test such as surviving fall damage at certain heights https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v4X_Zx5n-o

Nebulon-BFrigateFTW commented

2020-06-15 16:37:06 +02:00

It's not certain heights, landing in water negates all fall damage in Minecraft. It's a pretty core aspect of building (it means you can create a safe drop for rapid vertical descent) and advanced play ("MLG water" is very important in PvP and fighting the Ender Dragon).

kneekoo commented

2021-01-29 23:18:52 +01:00

We need some tweaks here, because the water is still quite different in MC2, with items sinking in water like they would drop normally in air. So if you want to grab the XP and items that a mob dropped, you really need to be able to sink fast, because in deep waters you could drown on your way back up to the surface because you can't sink fast enough.

Ideally, the items would float like in Minecraft - they initially sink a few blocks, then they slowly reach the surface, and bob up and down 1.5 blocks from the water's surface. But until the floating happens, if ever, let's review the swimming speeds and hopefully something can be done about sinking.

Swimming in	Speed
Still water, surface	2.2 m/s
Still water, underwater	1.97 m/s
Upstream, underwater	0.39 m/s
Downstream, underwater	1.81 m/s
While Diving	0.38 m/s
Downstream, underwater, standing	1.37 m/s

What's completely missing is sneaking while underwater, to submerge faster. The problem is, I can't tell how much faster it is, but it feels like more than twice as fast, probably up to 3x faster.

Sneaking when swimming allows the player to sink faster.

Sneaking while sprint-swimming allows the player to descend faster.

Depth Strider enchantment

Every level reduces the amount water slows the player by 1/3, including reducing the speed at which flowing water pushes the player when standing still. An armor stand carrying armor enchanted with Depth Strider also moves more slowly when being pushed by water.

Level 3 lets the player swim as fast as walking on land. Any higher level has no effect on speed. Also at level 3, a speed potion affects the player's swimming the same as walking.

@EliasFleckenstein03 @kay27 Please have a look.

We need some tweaks here, because the water is still quite different in MC2, with items sinking in water like they would drop normally in air. So if you want to grab the XP and items that a mob dropped, you really need to be able to sink fast, because in deep waters you could drown on your way back up to the surface because you can't sink fast enough. Ideally, the items would float like in Minecraft - they initially sink a few blocks, then they slowly reach the surface, and bob up and down 1.5 blocks from the water's surface. But until the floating happens, if ever, let's review the swimming speeds and hopefully something can be done about sinking. | Swimming in | Speed | | --- | --- | | Still water, surface | 2.2 m/s | | Still water, underwater | 1.97 m/s | | Upstream, underwater | 0.39 m/s | | Downstream, underwater | 1.81 m/s | | While Diving | 0.38 m/s | | Downstream, underwater, standing | 1.37 m/s | What's completely missing is sneaking while underwater, to submerge faster. The problem is, I can't tell how much faster it is, but it feels like more than twice as fast, probably up to 3x faster. > Sneaking when swimming allows the player to sink faster. > > Sneaking while sprint-swimming allows the player to descend faster. Depth Strider enchantment > Every level reduces the amount water slows the player by 1/3, including reducing the speed at which flowing water pushes the player when standing still. An armor stand carrying armor enchanted with Depth Strider also moves more slowly when being pushed by water. > > Level 3 lets the player swim as fast as walking on land. Any higher level has no effect on speed. Also at level 3, a speed potion affects the player's swimming the same as walking. @EliasFleckenstein03 @kay27 Please have a look.

MysticTempest commented

2021-02-04 02:10:48 +01:00

@kneekoo; keep in mind some of what you're mentioning is v1.13 features where swimming was overhauled in minecraft along with the water physics.

In v1.11.2; items and experience orbs sink. And, no sneak diving; you sink at the same speed regardless.

Surface swimming/sinking speed actually feels too fast when counting out(needs to be rechecked/verified with a stopwatch), compared to minecraft.
MCL2: 2.5m/s
minecraft: 2m/s

Changing the setting in mcl2's conf file to the following seems to fix that:

movement_liquid_fluidity = 1
movement_liquid_sink = 21

But, I haven't tested much more; as I'd need to create a proper test envrionment for this. And, this is a bit low priority.

@kneekoo; keep in mind some of what you're mentioning is v1.13 features where swimming was overhauled in minecraft along with the water physics. In v1.11.2; items and experience orbs sink. And, no sneak diving; you sink at the same speed regardless. Surface swimming/sinking speed actually feels too fast when counting out(needs to be rechecked/verified with a stopwatch), compared to minecraft. **MCL2:** 2.5m/s **minecraft**: 2m/s Changing the setting in mcl2's conf file to the following seems to fix that: ``` movement_liquid_fluidity = 1 movement_liquid_sink = 21 ``` But, I haven't tested much more; as I'd need to create a proper test envrionment for this. And, this is a bit low priority.

kneekoo commented

2021-02-04 04:34:30 +01:00

I definitely don't want this game to blindly reflect old Minecraft mechanics that have been later tweaked for a better experience, when Minetest allows for the updated behaviour. They clearly made changes for a good reason, so it makes perfect sense to use the engine to our advantage.

kay27 commented

2021-02-07 12:34:58 +01:00

@MysticTempest if you would change that, we'll test, definitely :)

haui commented

2024-03-06 12:12:51 +01:00

Interesting that this is still open. It is quite a change coming from minecraft water to Mineclone.

You drop pretty fast in mineclone which means you need to hold space if you want to stay afloat
Mobs are very fast in water which makes it hard to escape
The player doesnt get moved by flowing water

Interesting that this is still open. It is quite a change coming from minecraft water to Mineclone. - You drop pretty fast in mineclone which means you **need** to hold space if you want to stay afloat - Mobs are very fast in water which makes it hard to escape - The player doesnt get moved by flowing water

Sign in to join this conversation.