Thoughts about Rose Gold decorative items. #14
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I just looked up the alloy, rose gold, in response to the idea of a rose gold lantern.
It appears that its ~2/3's gold, 1/3 copper, or 3/4's gold and 1/4 copper. The idea is not to make a "useful" new metal for the game, but to add in a specialized (and doable) decorative metal.
My thoughts / ideas on this is we could do 3 gold bars, 1 copper bar, and have it make 3 rose gold. (One bar loss to make it rarer / more valuable.)
We already have a lighting idea for it, in pull request #11 but, we need to have more blocks to justify its creation. or, do we?
Decorative ideas:
rose gold bars (the metal fence kind)
rose gold door/trapdoor
rose gold stairs/half slabs
chiseled rose gold blocks that have unique designs (maybe like sandstone with creepers but pigs because pink?
Potential usefulness:
To be honest I was heavily considering doing rose gold as my second mod project exactly for the reason of some added usefulness before mentioning it in the last pr. So its unfortunate we don't see eye to eye on that part. Here is my reasoning for tools and armor.
Gold tools and armor has always been garbage which nobody really uses. Largely due the rediculously low durability which is a real deal breaker even with the extremely high enchantability and fast mining speed, gold things just wear out too fast.
Rose gold would be a kind of "soft upgrade" that increases durability to at least around-ish iron while lowering enchantability and speed just a bit for balance. For gameplay progression purposes nether quarts would be part of the recipe (even if adding in quartz doesn't directly relate to real life). 1 copper, 2 gold, and 1 nether quarts for 3 ingots of rose gold.
I understand there will be kickback on the tools and armor idea so if need be ill just make the 'useful' stuff a seperate mod not included in the modpack.
By the way, I think rose gold stuff should be pink, maybe not bright pink but definitely some lighter shade of it.
Awesome. look at mcl_copper for how to set it up, to handle waxing, oxidization, and scraping. (For oxidization though, we may have to change the oxidization function to be more generic. don't recall.)
We can do that... I like how our sandstone blocks (the really nice ones) have what look like an Assyrian griffon-looking creature from mythology. I am mentioning this, because we're free to explore and add things like that in, while not being super-limited.
right, with you so far...
I'm okay with this. I like your recipe better. I see that as a good trade off balance wise (changing the speed and enchantability).
Not kickback. I mean, this is a discussion topic. It's to bring up points and counter points. If I wanted it a specific way, and was not open to any other idea, I would have just made the mod myself, and "dictate" what's what. I'm not doing that. In fact, I created a label just for this issue, to show that it needed discussion.
Here's my worry about tools, weapons, and armor -- we have the standard ones, we now <3 have the copper ones... the (not by us, but still used / talked about)
mcl_emerald_tools? mod on the Content DB adds in emerald tools, weapons, armor... And, I am not wanting to flood the player with too many, if that makes sense. You can have too few, and you can have too many. We need to aim for the happy middle of "just right" ... whatever we decide that is.What I would do... is a gradient across the images... that seems to capture the metallic pretty well.
Here's the Rose gold color codes maybe something from there will work or offer a valid starting point.
Do we need rose gold to tarnish like copper does?
OOh I like that idea. Also heres an idea: How about some fractals? Im a big fan of them, the menger sponge in particular would be kind of fitting. Theres other square based fractals too ill have to do some research.
Definitely understandable. Having too many options can lead to things feeling unnecessarily bloated for the sake of 'content'. We shouldn't add something unless theres a good reason for it. So what justifications do these modded variants have for existing? Why would players even want to use them over the standard variants?
Copper stuff: Im obviously biased on this one. Copper stuff is a nice stepping stone between stone and iron, especially in the early game when resources in general are scarce and iron scarcer. finding copper ore is exciting until you find out its purely decorative and has no use which kind of dampens the excitement of finding it in the first place. Admittedly late game copper goes back to being almost purely decorative.
rose gold stuff: see my previous comment for it. Gold is a lot more rare than iron which in gameplay logic should make it better than iron to use at least in some cases, but due to its terrible durability its used like vanilla copper, mostly for decoration. The benefits of high enchantability and the fastest mining speed in the game still don't make up for that limitation.
Rose gold items would be a nice upgrade for the mid-tier stage of getting the first diamond pick and being able to go to the nether. A true stepping stone between iron and diamond that actually has some viable usefulness, a direct upgrade over iron tools/armor unlocked through the nethers materials.
Emerald stuff: These don't make much sense to me game progression wise. A tools durability/usefulness should be tied to rarity/difficulty of obtaining the materials. Emerald is arguably much easier to get than diamond through villager trading, so why is it superior to diamond, which traditionally is much harder to obtain? they are even more enchantable then gold, to boot.
Emerald stuff completely invalidates the progression of the game and any sembelence of tier balance for the sake of easy to obtain OP stuff that outlclasses literally everything except netherite.
Lets not forget that emerald stuff isn't part of the modpack (yet). It is entirely the players active choice to go out of their way to add it in. As it is in mcl2-plus currently we're only talking about potentially two extra armor/tool sets with reasonable balancing. Even with emerald armor, 3 extra material sets is peanuts compared to a standard modded MC pack.
For now though, focusing on decorative blocks is the right way to go. Once we have a sembelence of textures for decoration and basic crafting recipes then we can worry more about tools and armor (if thats something we decide to do)
Did a mock up rose gold texture for rose gold ingot and solid rose gold block based off the color Michieal sent, thoughts?
Oh and heres the rose lantern mock up
Need? no. can have? yeah, if we want.
as long as you can make it work with the low resolution textures, I'm all for your creativity.
What follows is a good breakdown.
agreed, which is why I was pretty excited about giving copper a real use. Most people either throw copper away, or overall think that it was stupid inclusion. My thoughts on this was that it's completely under-used, and because of such has little or no value. Giving it purpose, refreshes it into something of worth.
I really can see that, yes. I'd point out that rose gold really should replace regular gold. Regular gold weapons / armor was always used ceremonially, and never for real combat purposes. I really think that its inclusion was either based on other video games, or because they wanted something to make going into the nether have a required step (ie, piglins not attacking players wearing gold). However, regular gold armor / weapons / tools etc., aren't really useful, and it's not even a status symbol. (Gold trim on other armors, however, does look pretty sweet).
I'm hoping that rose gold would be a real replacement for those points. (except for the piglins thing.)
100% I brought up the emerald stuff, well, because it exists. It's not going to be part of the modpack, as it really appears to be something that was created to give people "edgelord powers" lol... like, "do you even emerald?!"
It's unbalanced and just OP. Someone made a bank that gives "interest" based on time, and then went "let's make it into something!"
I've not played a modded MC game. Yeah. well, my wonder / worry was stated. If you don't feel like it's going to be content for the sake of content, I'm good.
We do need to give things purpose. Be it, It's just cool, or whatever, as long as it adds to the gameplay. (Our primary focus.)
I really love that lantern!!!
Sorry that I missed the in-between comments, I just wanted to say that I really agree with this. And, I think that it's the correct path.
Did some work on the basic rose gold items and block. Thoughts on textures?
I really want this to be a collaborative effort between all of us interested (which seems to be Michieal and I for now) so if you have your own ideas on how things should look or stuff that could be changed/added, alternate textures, whateves, please voice your thoughts and show your stuff. I won't focus on any more textures until we at least get the color pallete/texture design for basic metal block decided on/locked in. Do you like the color scheme? Should the texture pattern of the basic block be different?
So far heres the ideas:
oxidation/tarnishing like copper with waxing/scraping functions - copper goes from orange to green (tarnished) to blueish green (oxidized). What colors should rose gold change over time into?
rose gold block variants: cut rose gold blocks like cut copper blocks, sandstone-esque design blocks based on mythology, fractals, or whatever might look good (get creative!),
rose gold block texture ideas: A metallic gradient across the block - kind of like the older minecraft metal textures? example:
Square fractal designs:
menger sponge -
T-square -
jerusalem square:
This looks really good! I like them.
Uhm, I was thinking about the Block of Rose gold. maybe a light colored rose golden block, like how the gold ones are? I would do a gradient between a light rose gold color and the defined hex code color. That way it can get a sort of "glimmer" going on the block.
Here's an up close image of a rose gold ring...
When gold tarnishes, it turns darker. Though, I have not had rose gold items irl, to know what it does.
From a jeweler's website on facts about rose gold.
The bottom left of the bright yellow fractal would be quite doable. The only problem I see with the other ones, is that we're limited to 16x16 or (usually, at most) 32x32 pixels. Going past that, media file sizes get large, and people complain. (Note, 32x textures are 4 times the size of 16x, and 64x textures are 4 times the size of 32x -- or 16 times the size of 16x textures!) Mind you, pixel entropy comes into play for files sizes, but, in memory (say, in the memory of a graphics card) this order of magnitude holds true regardless of file size.
Heh! I was thinking something like that... See the top response in this post.
Maybe, something like this?
I took the average between a pixel from the ring, and the color code for rose gold, to make it lighter.
(Colorization code: CC807D)
EDIT: A comparison to make it easier to see the changes:
The lanterns look awesome. I haven't commented as I have been very busy with things, but you have a very real talent for this stuff. I am impressed and really like the quality of it.
I like the revision a lot! Looks great to me.
The old v1 rose gold palette looks more 'red' to me by comparison, so perhaps we can reuse it for the exposed version and make the oxidized and weathered version shades darker?
Got the oxidation function working, could definitely use an API in the future but so far its doing stuff!
We need now need an oxidized and weathered pallette. Ill play around with some darker colors tommorow.
Awesome, that looks epic!
Yeah, I would. I think though, that after going to v1 of it (I guess that would be the vintage'd look), I'd try a desaturated style... the same, just less vivid for the next stage.
Apparently, rose gold doesn't really oxidize... it just brings out the coppery aspect (the redness).
Remember to put in these two properties on the nodes:
_mcl_copper_waxed_variant =this is the waxed version of the current level of oxidized node.and
_mcl_stripped_variant =this is the unwaxed version of the node, for waxed nodes; this is the less oxidized version of the node, or scraped version for unwaxed, oxidized nodes.Looking back on it, I kinda wished that I had of removed the word "copper" from
_mcl_copper_waxed_variant =and made the oxidization function more api/generalized, when I was there fixing the code.@SmokeyDope Due to issues with the management, I am leaving the project. I am sorry that I cannot help further with this. I wish you the absolute best and hope that you can make sense of the changes I suggested.