Epic hamburger fight PR #2959
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Reference: VoxeLibre/VoxeLibre#2959
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Delete Branch "mcl_hamburger"
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You wanted it, you get it: here's the hamburger branch back – go crazy lol
b9dcd313c8tof7da07803cI appreciate there are some concerns that if this gets let in, other stuff will. That isn't the case, this is simply a focus on making the gameplay good for the users and working around an engine issue.
If we can't rely on our engine and when it gets fixed, we need to work around it until it can.
The moment it does, this gets killed in favour of a better solution. It is isn't about an agreement to go crazy, simply to focus on the player and how they experience this game.
We want them to enjoy, not be swearing, then logging out never to play again.
This game is great and we want them to enjoy everyone's hard work.
Don't you worry, the moment anyone tries to add lasers into the game, we'll stop them. Well, we would if we knew they could actually get a line rendering ;).
Why not just make it so you can bait villagers with an emerald block? Villagers love emeralds, so holding an entire block made out of emeralds in your hand should make the villagers follow you around.
This has the advantage of feeling less out of place (also, where does the hamburger get the cheese, tomatoes, lettuce, etc... from?), and also not requiring people who convert texture packs to improvise and create their own hamburger texture that thematically fits with said texture pack.
I love how realism is only ever an argument when it serves ones own position haha - it's not like anything in this game is particularly realistic but I have to tell you I do not see any tomatoes or cheese - there's just something greenish between the buns which could well be dried kelp i guess :P
I did not completely read through the endless discussion on the old PR so maybe someone already made these points.
Animalia (https://github.com/ElCeejo/animalia) has leashes so it is possible to make leashes although the leash position is set on server step so it is not too great. The leash position is kind of laggy.
Why is a new mod needed? Just get the villagers to follow bread or something.
The "lasso" in animalia looks about as stupid as I imagined - I do not think it makes sense to go through the trouble making such a line entity thing when it doesn't even look good – imo it will look better when the leash isn't visible at all (and its easier to implement too).
This is besides the point though - we do not have a leash mod + leashes don't even work on villagers.
noone says it's needed but opposed to all alternatives that have been proposed its is there and works now ...
I've experienced this myself before so I will spell it out: (some) people around here are very quick to dislike things but rarely put in the work to make a viable alternative themselves.
As @ancientmarinerdev pointed out the inclusion of a hamburger does not automatically open the door for laser weapons:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
Still, what about MrRar's and my point of using bread or emerald blocks as bait instead?
My issue is with the emerald, is while it is ok, and logical, it is also characterless and if you want to expand it to other mobs (until you have a working leash), the emerald makes no sense as to why other mobs would follow it.
The only things that would work in my view is burgers, cause everyone loves burgers, and it's funny, or cake, because everyone loves cake, and if they don't they don't count.
I also really want to see a cow following a burger.
So, this hamburger idea is for every mob, not just villagers?
One has to remember that the leashes can also be tied around fence(post)s, so how will this work with a hamburger?
I have another idea that I could tell you if you want.
If I was this critical with everyone's PRs trust me things would be A LOT slower - it's not like I can't think of reasons not to include something if I really want to – I just generally go the route that things will get merged by default unless there's serious problems with them that I think would cause more work later.
You can propose alternatives all day - I do not see a PR for them - hence this is clearly superior
Especially on a multiplayer server, when a friend allows you to get two villagers to start your own village, being able to target specific villagers is important so you don't get the one with Mending or some other important trade.
But even in singleplayer, if you attract a large number of villagers it would be hard to get them all safely at the destination, considering how easy it is for our mobs to take a wrong turn or whatever.
--
Well, at least I hope we'll be able to pick specific mobs.
My idea was to add a new enchantment to the game exclusive to eyes of ender. Said enchantment would allow you to leash mobs telekinetically by right-clicking on them with the enchanted eye of ender. Right clicking on a fence(post) makes the enchanted eye of ender float on top of the fence, and the mobs cannot move too far away from the enchanted eye of ender, without getting pulled back.
I am not sure whether or not you are being serious here.
Why wouldn't I be serious - I prefer something working and existing to something that could be done any day
Let me put it this way. Just as you have told me a couple of moments ago that the slippery slope is a fallacy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
I will follow that up by saying that the sunken cost is a fallacy as well:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost
Besides, never have I said that I am AGAINST the hamburger being added. I was just proposing a couple of ideas for reskins of literally the same thing. If burgers were to be added to the game, I can manage with finding a texture for it. Don't worry.
PR wars haha
The slippery slope isn't automatically a fallacy - to quote the wp page:
Same way as the concept of Sunk Cost does not say anything about if you should still pursue something or not - it just says that just because you have invested in something it does not mean you're getting it back necessarily by investing even more (Depending on what it actually is you totally might though).
But as with all such things it very much depends on the actual situation.
There are no simple answers in cold and messy reality. That's why a lot of people like to spend their time in perfectionism dreamland :P
I don't think sunk cost has a lot to do with this though. It's a situation where we have (had i guess hehe) one working thing and no working alternative.
This was the starting basis for the invis leash to be added in.
See the above statement.
In MC (proper) even with a leash it's extremely difficult due to the pathfinding to transport mobs across distances. I know, I have watched a friend spend an hour+ trying to get 2 cows roughly 200m (nodes / blocks) to a desert town across dry land. it really takes a combo of a lure and a lead, in MC. (pointing at 1.19.2 java)
my latest inquiries last night (EST) about mobs was because I am working on targeting individual mobs with said item.
She's dead serious. Every time something like this comes up, the naysayers come out of the woodwork to trash it, and uphold their purist beliefs. Meanwhile, the player base suffers because there is no solution in place as they are all kept down by the FEW... And said few push away the ones that are willing to make a solution.
Hence, being serious here - If you have a viable solution that at least has a framework in place, present it. I, for one, will happily test the frak out of it, offer suggestions, help with coding / graphics / etc. Heck, I'll even set aside my extreme dislike of blender, and put my 10 yrs of 3d modeling experience to work and make you a model for it, if you need it.
But, if you read through all of this thread, you'll see outright rudeness for me having the audacity to make a solution to an existing gameplay problem, with no alternative proposed, until AFTER this was merged in. don't believe me? look at the time stamps for mesehub.
Also, @MrRar (love your work, btw.) you can't just "make" villagers follow the breed/follow items. At least, not without completely screwing up the villager modifications - which, aren't even done yet. Also, @ancientmarinerdev has been working with me, to make villagers actually follow items. And, he knows the code inside and out.Note, I am not saying that you're not capable of understanding it... but due to ancient having the greater familiarity, ancient will instinctively remember "Oh, I need to add it here too) where you don't exactly know that you should add it. Hence, me asking him for help with this.And, if it's a problem, the crafting recipe can be changed to have a bucket of milk in it, for "cheese"... Or, I can add in a cheese craft recipe for the haters to have a coniption fit over. But, it's a "hamburger" and not a "cheese burger" and, by definition a hamburger is a cooked patty of ground beef between 2 slices of bread... and the craft recipe reflects that. (just hoping to shed some light on the realism concern...) I guess that I could add in "cut grass" for the green stuff lmao.
The idea was to create a solution, even if temporary, add in some character and increase the gameplay experience. And, you never know - Minecraft might just add in hamburgers, like they added in inventories to bookshelves because we did that, too.
Nice, we really need that for a proper lead alternative.
We do. And that was the intent. I have to wait until after the great mobs cleanup gets merged to make a "proper" lead... But, I am willing to do it... if Cora doesn't beat me to it first.
Though, I still think that the hamburger should remain in the game with the ability to turn it off (which is already in place).
I think default on, and configurable so people can turn it on is a good plan. Those that don't want to see a burger don't have to.
exactly.
By they way, the wiki says:
I don't know what "return range" our villagers have, but if anything happens to the player and the villagers try to return to the village, they'd better have really good pathfinding. Chances are they would get into trouble over longer distances.
I've seen a mention of 100 blocks in Discord and if that's true, it's too much.
it was 50... but 100 would definitely trigger it.
Also, I don't think it's immediately sprint back. I may be wrong.
but yeah... with just turning off nofollow... without a framework's worth of support... any transplated villager will most likely die trying to get back.
I think, in this, that it would be better if the villager got stranded and looked for a new village if the player dies and has to respawn; or in the instance of a disconnect.
at least then, the player has the opportunity to try to go find the villager and continue on
(which makes the most sense to me).
but yeah, been working with, to get the transplant code implemented, so that the solutions have less or no problems.
Here is my two cents to the war.
I think this should be added no matter what, even if the follow code would need to be removed later.
This.
I am gravitating toward that option ngl. particularly if certain people prefer to stay silent again hehe
If this gets merged can we please have ketchup too.
The ketchup could increase the range in which the hamburger draws in creatures.
(edit, this is a joke, dont get angry)
I am strongly against this 👎
Will just need one more alias when we will the lead in the game.
Plus a burger isn't in MC, and isn't even close to its design.
MineClone2/MineClone2#2961 is a much better temporary solution
hamburger.pngis looking nice, but why is there another one??The two textures are not optimised: 51% decrease when running
optipng -o7 -zm1-9 -nc -strip all -clobberon the first one, 21% for the second one@ -0,0 +5,4 @@----- LOCALIZATIONif not minetest.settings:get_bool("mcl_enable_hamburger",true) then return endInstead of making villagers not follow the hamburger (according to setting description), this will just skip mod loading.
It will cause uknown items if someone disable the setting in its world after having got some hamburgers.
A settting should NOT decide is a node/item is registered or not.
Should not according to who ? You make these dogmatic and super general statements and never explain why you think that is. It is a bit tiresome tbh.
And it's not like this would be the only example where it's done lol.
As a matter of fact I made it for you and all other purists so you can completely disable it - guess you'll have to see a hamburger in creative then :P
Well, you just need to set
not_in_creative_inventory = 1to disable it showing in the creative inventory, and just disable the modification of the villager code with a bool check. As simple as that.A while ago somebody was stupid enough to remove a node from a mod I use on my personal MTG server without even adding an alias. This node was registered as a decoration, so I had to remove thousands of uknown nodes all around the spawn and my base.
well a) this isn't a node and hopefully there are no more crashes involving unknown items lol. And b) everyone who doesn't want it is going to disable it first thing i suppose.
For these "fundamentalist settings" I usually try to make the disabling as radical as reasonably possible. I mean the speed gapples are something I always disable e.g. it's not like I'm completely innocent of that haha.
These are generally not things that are turned on and off all the time and usually when people do it they kind of know what they are doing. So I think there is definitely a win if you don't have to run the code at all when you don't want something.
@ -0,0 +18,4 @@mcl_hamburger = {}-- call to register your hamburger.function mcl_hamburger.register_burger_craft(cooked_meat, use_alt)Why does this function is in a global namespace? I mean its literally called one time...
because it was initially meant to be an api. so that if it caught on, we could make a variant or two.
I am leaving it this way, until we know the fate of it. Removing it's namespace in the glabal namespace is a simple fix should it be necessary to do.
@ -0,0 +63,4 @@minetest.register_craftitem("mcl_hamburger:hamburger", hamburger_def)elselocal hamburger_alt = table.copy(hamburger_def)hamburger_alt.inventory_image = "mcl_hamburger_hamburger_alt.png"Do we really need this secondary image? It is pretty bad looking IMO.
Did you even read the Readme? It's in there for personal use only. it's an homage to a very old game that influenced GenX arcade goers. you know, the forgetten generation? I thought it would be a nice thing to give them something, being that they 1) grew up with that game, 2) are a good chunk of MC players... 3) everyone usually loves homages.
It's not enabled by default, And... it looked okay when I used it before you changed the images. maybe recompressing it made alterations?
The image is resized from the original, also. (I might need to resize it again. I used Krita to do it the first time.)
That image can't be in the game because of licensing issues.
okay, I'll remove it and change the readme.
@ -0,0 +1,4 @@name = hamburger_modshould be
mcl_hamburgeraccording to folder namesee
dac05a500e/doc/lua_api.txt (L202)yeah this will produce a warning
Yeah, I was going to do that...
Sorry, I was tired from the Epic Hamburger Wars of 2022... Having to justify one's creativity and existence kinda takes the life out of you. Ya know?
So, I took a break.
Fixed.
Yeah, I was wondering as well why there is a giant burger texture included in this pull request. Seems pointless to have to download such a big image when there already is a small one that fits the pixelated style more.
See the convo & my response.
--EDIT--
it was 64x64... but, that one is going to be removed. even though I just finished making it 32x32.
so, the addition of 1 line of code is what bothers you?
Also, when seen, how do you know that Minecraft/Mojang won't add it? points at bookshelves with inventories that are NOW in Minecraft -- They do pay attention to popular clones.
What I am getting at is, when it becomes MC-standard, which would you prefer to be?
a) scrambling to make it?
b) able to say "Yeah, that was us! Hoohah! we added to the game."?
Personally, I prefer not to live in anyone's shadow. Though, it seems like others prefer, even love, to do that.
If I am not wasting my time doing so, I will make said changes and optimizations.
That's the other reason that there has been zero commits past the initial commit... because everyone's reactions told me that I was wasting my miniscule amount of free time... just to be dogpiled with "I hate that" and "It's not in minecraft, I seriously oppose this"...
You'll note, I've never said anything like that about other people's commits. ever
well to point it out again in different words: we need to be more inclusive - maybe a hamburger is needed to remind us all of that.
@AFCMS did you commit the images? or do I need to install optipng, and optimze them and commit them?
GIMP is pretty good at optimizing images. Just export them and un-check all the boxes in the export window. Those generate metadata.
@kneekoo Yeah, was thinking about doing that. Krita is finicky and GIMP... well, it's GIMPy. lol.
I seriously miss Paintshop Pro at times like this.
c545038ca9tob3f22ff9a9Optipng always produces better results than Gimp with all the boxes unchecked. However it does not make much of a difference. The good thing about using Optipng yourself is that it prevents someone from doing an Optipng PR later and overwriting all your images. I wish Gimp had an Optipng export. That would be convenient!
It would be convenient. though, I did my best to make them as small as possible. I had to do some editing and clean up of the images, as it tried to alpha & anti alias them.
Made the requested changes.
Tested.
All features works as intended.
It should be 16*16 to match Mineclone items.
it's already been made into a 16x16px image.
See the taco truck idea for Mineclone-2 plus.
well, I just checked... and the joke's on them. it's already optimized. (just ran optipng on both.)
2e626b1487toc45e4d292aI know some people will hate me for this but, maybe we do need some fresh wind around here.